In our businesses, we all need someone who can help with the books. But we also need someone who can help us think forward. Someone who can help us forecast, not retract, and change our thoughts and habits around money. For me, that is my CFO and the owner of Nice Job, Inc., Emily Sandberg….

EP #10

Season 3 Episode 10: Redefining Power and Success with Money with Emily Sandberg

In our businesses, we all need someone who can help with the books. But we also need someone who can help us think forward. Someone who can help us forecast, not retract, and change our thoughts and habits around money. For me, that is my CFO and the owner of Nice Job, Inc., Emily Sandberg.

I wanted to have Emily on an episode to share some of her wisdom and magic, and she delivered. We discussed security, being properly connected to our money, leadership, protecting structures and roles, and much more. As a money genius, Emily gave several powerful statements revolving around how we think about money. She reminded all of us that money does not define us, and neither our businesses nor ourselves are fragile.

“One of the problems I see is women who use money to define who they are. They want the money to tell them they’re good enough, they’re smart enough, they’re capable enough. And so they think if they have enough money, then they’ll know that for sure. But when you’re a leader, when you take leadership over the money, what you do then is you recognize money for what it is. It’s a tool.” – Emily Sandberg

What You’ll Learn

  • Safety isn’t in the money
  • Money doesn’t define you, it’s data
  • The power in how you think about making money
  • It’s never as bad as it feels
  • Dynamic changes around decisions and entrepreneurship
  • Protecting structure and roles
  • I’m not fragile and neither is my business

Meet Emily Sandberg

Emily Sandberg is the owner of Nice Job, Inc. She’s a money coach specializing in cashflow and forecasting for online coaches and course creators. While most accounting looks to the past for guidance, Emily works with her clients to know the future of money in their business, so they can make strategic decisions with their cash. Her work has helped dozens of clients go from running a money-hungry business to a predictably profitable enterprise, by simply following her profit-centered framework. When she’s not running scenarios for her clients’ Facebook Ad Spends, she can be found playing pickleball or hiking in the gorgeous red rocks of southern Utah with her family.

Contact Info and Recommended Resources

Connect with Emily Sandberg

Connect with Kris Plachy

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Kris Plachy: Welcome to Season Three of the Leadership is Feminine podcast. I’m Kris Plachy, and I’m so happy that you’re here. In this season, we’re doing something different. One of the things that I believe to be true is that there is so much unsourced beautiful wisdom in the everyday person. I really like to talk about what I call obscure wisdom. That means these are things that people know, that unless we meet them at a cocktail party, or at a barbecue, or sitting next to them on a train, we don’t hear about it.

And these aren’t celebrities, these aren’t people who’ve written bestselling books yet, these aren’t people that are on the circuit that everybody else is learning from. These are everyday women, who are CEOs, building, dealing with, working through all the pieces and parts of running a company. And I want to bring my beautiful clients, and their wisdom to your ears, because I know that you’ll find it to be validating, and insightful, and hopefully also some fun. So, without further ado, let’s get started with this week’s amazing personal client and guest on Leadership is Feminine.

Welcome! Welcome! Thank you so much for joining this episode of Leadership is Feminine, I’m Kris Plachy, and I’m so excited because today, Emily Sandberg is here, and Emily is my CFO—as well as a few others, but we don’t like to talk about them, because she just is mine. But I’m just so excited to talk to Emily, because not only is she my CFO, she also has been a client through the How to CEO program, and she’s building her own gorgeous business alongside everybody else. So, welcome, Emily.

Emily Sandberg: Thank you, Kris. I’m thrilled to be here.

Kris Plachy: So, tell everybody who you are, what you do, and what kind of magic your business does in the world.

Emily Sandberg: Oh, my magic is money, and helping entrepreneurs with money, especially women. I just hate to see money cause people to stumble, and it’s such a big stumbling block, or it can be. And so, my mission is really to take that away, to not allow money to be the reason that you have problems in your business, like, we can figure that out, this is numbers on paper. Well, that’s what we think, but really, it’s what happens up here in our heads, right?

Kris Plachy: Yeah, right, exactly.

Emily Sandberg: So, if we can unravel that stuff that’s happening in your head around money, your business can be so much fun, there’s so much more magic there when we don’t have that, creating problems.

Kris Plachy: Right, exactly. And who specifically do you work with? Because I know people will be curious, everybody hears about, “Ooh, a CFO, I want one.”

Emily Sandberg: We work with online business owners who are coaches, course creators, people who really sell their expertise and they work online.

Kris Plachy: And why have you chosen that group of women mostly to work with?

Emily Sandberg: They’re my people, it’s who I am, it’s who they are, so, it’s easier for me to understand. Maybe not easier to understand, but it was just the most natural progression for me. I used to work with more people, but when you niche down, you’re able to help people more, to get more, you’re more experienced in who they are, and what they need. So, it just was a way for me to magnify my own expertise by helping a smaller group.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, it’s such a harder way for people to learn how to think, right? Serving a smaller niche actually helps you expand your ability to help, and also actually expand the success of your business, right?

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely. The efficiency of your business too, you become more efficient, which then allows for the growth, because you’re not—your experience or your service doesn’t have to be as broad.

Kris Plachy: Right, so you don’t have to put your hand in so many different pots, right?

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: Heroin. So, you’ve been a guest expert several times, actually in the How to CEO program, which has been delightful to have you in there. And I’m kind of curious, just as we talk about your expertise, what would you say, what you would answer now might be different than what you would’ve said a year or two ago, but what are you seeing, as what are the big obstacles or challenges that entrepreneurs are facing right now when it comes to money?

Emily Sandberg: Right now, when it comes to money, there’s uncertainty. We’ve been dealing with that for a couple years now, after COVID hit. It felt like all of a sudden, there was a lot more uncertainty in the world, as far as what could happen, problems I could face, issues that I could need to find solutions for.

So, we’ve been dealing with that uncertainty, and the idea that this is right along with the uncertainty that I see this trajectory of my life, and before it felt like the trajectory was pretty set, and I had control over that, and then people discovered, oh, we have COVID, and we have an insurrection at the Capital, and we have lock down and we have masked mandates, and we have protests, and we have all of this happening. I was like, “I don’t have control over this and it can affect my life, it affects my business in ways that I don’t necessarily feel prepared for.” And so, that created a lot of uncertainty and a lot of scarcity around that, people wanting to hold onto their money a little bit tighter.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, and it’s interesting, because maybe you can echo this or add more perspective, but certainly, over the last couple of years, when COVID first hit, right? We talk about March 13, when it was like, whoa! Everything screeched to a halt. And everybody was just terrified that they were going to stop making money, and certainly the majority of my clients made more money than they’ve ever made before, including me, right? And so, that’s so interesting, that despite all of what you’ve just said, there’s so many people making more money, and yet there’s this really, really powerful or pronounced belief that there’s less opportunity, that things are, you have to be in scarcity, right?

So, how have you worked with women through that? I’m just curious, as you’ve been working with different kinds of, obviously all online businesses, but different areas of focus. What have you seen in the women that have struggled, is sort of that common or core belief that they have, that is preventing them from, in many ways, almost taking advantage of a time where there’s a tremendous amount of opportunity?

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, it was watching them give up control. They never had control in the first place, but they thought they did. And so, when they thought it was taken away from me, and then that became a really scary thing, and so, they felt, that they retracted, watching them retract rather than going, “Oh, the safety was never in the money,” which if you’ve listened to me, you’ll hear me say that a lot—the safety isn’t in the money, but in who they are, and how they react to circumstance.

What I do with my clients is helping them learn to rely on themselves, their talents, their skills, what they had going for them anyway, and then that helps them make more money. It’s not ever the money that creates the safety, it’s your own ability to react, to respond, to plan, to have vision, all of those things are what makes your business succeed.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, and to trust yourself, right?

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely.

Kris Plachy: And even in the absence of a lot of evidence, you and I have had this conversation about my business, like, where I’ve had to do the most growth is believing that I can make something happen that I’ve never made happen before, right? And then also, knowing, like even if whatever it is I’m doing right now stops working, I know how to translate what’s in my brain into revenue.

Emily Sandberg: Yes.

Kris Plachy: And even if it takes another year to get that to go, I do believe that’s true. And so, that belief though is sometimes the hardest part to find, because when the bank account gets low, when people don’t buy, whatever it is that you do, it can be very convincing that you’re not going to be successful, that you’re in the wrong thing, that nobody wants you. Like, you can just really, really fall into that trap.

Emily Sandberg: Well yeah, if you’re consistently looking for all the things that are going to go wrong, or how they’re going to go wrong. I’m on the lookout for that, we have that natural confirmation bias, but then we find the evidence. Yeah. And so, when you contract, when you lose that belief in yourself and you start to contract, then you find all the evidence, that it was scary and dangerous out there, and that contracting was the right thing.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, it’s always so interesting to me, right? Like, I remember years ago, I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this, I was doing a thought model in a leadership workshop. And it was a bunch of bankers, and I put in the circumstance line, I said, “I give you a million dollars today,” right? So, I told them, I said, “If I give you all a million dollars, we’re going to put a million dollars in the celling, what is the thoughts that you have about that?” And I went around the room, and people were like, “That’s cool, woo! I could pay for my kids’ school,” like they had all these thoughts.

But there was this one guy who was my favorite, and he just said, “It’s not enough.” And I was like, that’s so interesting, right? So, whatever that dollar is, right? It could have put a hundred dollars, $500, $500,000, $500 million, and everybody would have had a different thought about it, but we just think that money is what makes us think or makes us feel. And it isn’t, it’s the way that we think about money.

So anyway, my work with you has been so powerful. And what I would say for people listening who don’t have someone who they partner with, if you’re running a company, there’s really…Like, we all need a bookkeeper, right? We need people who categorize and manage and document how the business’s money is spent. But then we need someone also who helps us think forward, and strategize, and forecast, and budget, and plan, and ideate.

And so, working with you has been so good because it keeps me very connected to my money, to the money of the business. And I don’t have to face things about money that I may not want to, but I do it every Monday at 9 o’clock in the morning, and so therefore it’s done and over with, right? I always like to joke, “If my dashboard…” because Emily uses a system that’s like a dashboard, “if my dashboard’s green, it’s a much better meeting than the red, when it’s red.” But that…

Emily Sandberg: I love how you said it keeps you connected though, because that’s what we see people do, when they think the numbers are wrong, or they think the numbers aren’t going to tell them what they want to hear, they disconnect, that’s when they stop looking. And a lot of times, I find people are wrong, they show up to meetings with me and they’re like, “Well, that was a terrible month.” I’m like, “Really? It looks pretty good to me.” And we dig into it, and they’ve been having these terrible feelings about this. And the money’s not reflecting that, because that’s not the reality.

Kris Plachy: I have learned that money denial does not help you make more.

Emily Sandberg: No.

Kris Plachy: No, it also doesn’t help you be rich.

Emily Sandberg: No.

Kris Plachy: Even though it’s like, well, it’s okay, there’s probably someone there, right, I’ll just spend and it’ll be fine. So, I love that. Okay, so let’s talk about money and leadership, because you and I have had this conversation—I used to talk about this a lot. I feel like there’s like five key relationships that female entrepreneurs really need to work on and develop, which are your business, relationship you have with your business, relationship you have with your team, the relationship you have with your time, the relationship you have with yourself, and then the relationship you have with your money, to really step into that leadership role.

So, what do you see as the attributes to a woman who is really in a leadership, who has a great leadership role with her business and her money, the money of her business, and maybe even herself?

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, particularly with money, one of the problems I see is women who use money to define who they are. They want the money to tell them they’re good enough, they’re smart enough, they’re capable enough. And so, they think if they have enough money, then they’ll know that for sure. But when you’re a leader, when you take leadership over the money, what you do then is you recognize the money for what it is, it’s a tool, it’s a tool to be used to fund your business, to help your business grow, to compensate people for working with you, to compensate you. It can buy us new experience, it can give us the power to help others. Money, it’s a diverse and incredibly useful tool.

But what it can’t do is tell you that you’re good enough, that you’re smart enough, or that you’re capable enough. So, when we expect that from money, we’re often left wanting more and more and more, because it can’t fill that hole. But in a leadership position, what I love to see is women who know their money, they have that relationship in that, they check in frequently. So, they know how much they have, they know how much they need, and even if they are getting bad news from those, they still recognize that they have the power to change that.

Kris Plachy: So good, yeah.

Emily Sandberg: It makes such a difference.

Kris Plachy: It’s always amazing to me how many women who run businesses don’t know how much money they made last month. They don’t have a revenue goal, there’s no goal, it’s like, we’ll just see how it goes, right? There’s just a real lack of attention. And I think part of that is just we’re not well taught as women to learn how to think about money. I don’t think anybody really is, honestly, unless you just got really lucky with a parent who had that zone of genius, most of us are pretty bad at it, right?

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, for sure. Our culture does not help us at all. No, it’s very much an individual thing as if you got good at money, and if you’ve had good education with money, it’s not because of the culture that we live in here, probably in the Western world, I would say.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, and we take a lot of it for granted, I think in a lot of ways as well.

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, I like the way that you’re saying that. Like, leadership with your money is presence, right? It’s like, I’m here with you…

Emily Sandberg: Yes.

Kris Plachy: …I’m not hiding from you, I’m not mad at you.

Emily Sandberg: How about I’m open to the data that you can give me?

Kris Plachy: Yes.

Emily Sandberg: I’m open to the information that you can teach me about what’s happening in my business.

Kris Plachy: So good, yeah, money is data.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: Not an opinion.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: Your bank account balance is not an opinion of who you are. Okay, so, you’re also building and growing your own beautiful business, so, I’m kind of curious what your biggest leadership challenge has been in general?

Emily Sandberg: Oh, my challenge has been my vision. It’s ironic, because I totally would have been happy making like $60,000 a year. Like that was kind of like my cap. I was like, yeah, I can do that. And I was a stay-at-home mom for a lot of years, love that. I was also really good with numbers, and I really like behavior, like the science of behavior, I find that fascinating. When I could put those together, numbers and behavior, coach, business… I read business books while I was nursing my babies for absolutely no reason, it’s just that I love them.

Kris Plachy: As one does.

Emily Sandberg: As one does.

Kris Plachy: That’s funny. I didn’t know that about you, Emily Sandberg.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah. So, when that all came together, I could help people with their money, help them figure this out, and not just in a way of, this is how much money you have, I can add and subtract and do that. But like, what are you thinking about this money? And how do you want to use it? And what feels scary to you? And we can go into that. I could do that all day long. I do do that all day long.

Kris Plachy: Matter of fact. But listen, let’s talk about that the biggest challenge is your vision.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: So, you have one?

Emily Sandberg: Do I have one now?

Kris Plachy: Yeah.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: What is it?

Emily Sandberg: Well, I have a mission. Let’s go with the mission is a little bit more well-defined. It’s vision I’m working on. The vision, I’m working on expanding it. But the mission is just to not let money be a problem in people’s businesses. Or more of a problem than it needs to be. If you don’t have enough money, yeah, that’s a problem.

Kris Plachy: Yeah.

Emily Sandberg: But when you pile on the guilt and the shame, and the, I’m not good enough on top of that, that’s the problem I can help you with. And once that’s taken care of, then we can deal with the not enough money, that’s actually the much easier problem.

Kris Plachy: Isn’t that so great? I love that. Like, making money is not really that difficult, but you thinking about how difficult it is to make money, is making it difficult.

Emily Sandberg: Totally.

Kris Plachy: Right? Because if all you did was decide, “I’m going to do this, and ask everybody who I meet, who might buy this, I could make money.” But instead, I have, “What if it’s not good enough, what if it’s not ready? What if they don’t like it? What if nobody buys it? What if I make a mistake? What if I look stupid?” And then that keeps us from asking people to give us money.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, and that’s at a small scale, and that’s at a macro scale.

Emily Sandberg: Totally.

Kris Plachy: Right? Like that exists in really, really, really, really, really big companies too, not just small ones.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, that’s really good. What has been your journey as a woman who didn’t really think she wanted a business, never really thought about it, so now you have one, and not only that, you’ve had to hire people to help you deliver on the promise of your business. So how has that gone for you, that transition from being sort of solopreneur, and yeah, I want to help people to now have people who work for me to help people?

Emily Sandberg: Honestly, I would say it’s gone perfectly. And by perfect, I mean exactly how it was supposed to go.

Kris Plachy: Exactly, so that doesn’t mean swimmingly.

Emily Sandberg: That does not mean there haven’t been hard things happened.

Kris Plachy: It is hard as well as it should was supposed to.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah. Yes, I think the one thing that you and Michelle have taught me, so, I went through How to CEO, and that was so good with tactical, this is how to do it. Like I didn’t have a clue on a lot of that stuff. So, I got those tactical things down, oh my gosh. My first hires were beautiful, because you taught me to just daydream about who I wanted, and then I found them. So wonderful.

So, How to CEO? Was so great for that tactical knowledge, here’s a plan, put it into play. Showing up in the lab, like I can come and think, I just screwed everything up, like it’s over. And you just kind of giggle at me, and you’re like, “Oh no, just do this, just say this.” And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t ruin it, I didn’t ruin it.”

Kris Plachy: It’s not over.

Emily Sandberg: Right. So, in the moment, it’s difficult, but you’ve given me the perspective that like: it’s not over, this moment doesn’t have the power to ruin it all. Like, just fix it, just fix it. And here’s how to do it. So, that has allowed me to be so much more relaxed, so much more myself, and then when myself blow something up, as she does occasionally…

Kris Plachy: As one does.

Emily Sandberg: Then I can come back and go, “Kris, what do I do?” And we just get it right back on track. And it’s never as bad as I thought it was going to be in my head, ever.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, it does feel bad. The human element of leading people is, we’re never going to get out of that. Like, the emotion and reaction, and all of it, we’re always going to have it. But I love that you’re saying, right? Like, once you have these basic tactics that you can put into place, then we can work your brain around those, and then you know what the next right action is, right?

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, totally.

Kris Plachy: But what I think has been so fun about watching you is that you have been able to expand on this vision, and do so in a way that’s completely Emily, right? It’s yours, it’s the way you want your business to run, it’s not somebody else’s formula. It’s the one that you chose for yourself that’s got the most authenticity in it, which is of course what we all hope for at the end of the day.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: I super love that. So, when we think about being a woman who runs her own business, oftentimes…like, you’ve had a few kids, so you and I, this is how I like to say it. Like, before you get pregnant with the first baby, it’s like, “Oh, I’m going to have a baby!” And then you get pregnant, and you realize that there’s all these things that happen when you’re pregnant that nobody told you was going to happen. It’s like, why does anybody give me this part? They told me all the other parts. Because as soon as you would talk to someone else who had been, or was pregnant, they’ll be like, “Oh yeah.” And I everything is so annoying, like, why wasn’t that in the memo? I didn’t know that part.

So, what are some of the tea that you would say is like this is some stuff that we probably should be talking about, that a lot of women who lead businesses don’t talk about, that I think that is valuable to let other people know and be validated, like, yeah, that’s a thing, there’s a thing.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, for sure. One of the things for me is, how many decisions you have to make? Like, when you hire a team…When you’re on your own, you’re making decisions, but not all of them are like, you don’t have to run them by anybody. You just make them in your head.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, they don’t affect anybody else.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, yeah. You start having a team, and all of a sudden, they come to you with questions, and you’re like, “Well, I think I know the answer, but now I have to say it out loud to you.” And then you’re going to put it into practice, and what if I’m wrong? And then we have to, not only do we have to reel back what I was doing, but now we’ve got to reel back what you were doing, and it feels bigger, it feels messier, more potential for mess there.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, very, very, very sound. I would agree, we’ve talked a lot lately about decision and thinking fatigue, which is a real thing, and so I appreciate you saying that. One of the things that somebody else said recently on another podcast interview was the very real conversations or challenges that some women face when they actually become the primary earner in their family. I’m curious if that has ever been a thing for you.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, it changes the dynamic of the relationship, right? All of a sudden, it’s like, oh, it used to be, just one of us was going to work at work, the other one was staying home and taking care of things there. The money balance was very clear, it was all coming from the outside work. And now, all of a sudden, it’s like, “Oh, you go to work for a few hours right over there at our house, and you’re making a lot more money.” That’s an interesting thing to come about. And to navigate and just to be conscious of like, “Oh, there are some conversations we’re going to need to have here,” and that’s okay.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, and I can give a sample of that, because you did stay home, right? And you did, you were the primary caregiver. And just like you’ve said, that money is just data, it doesn’t define anybody. Me making more money than you, vice versa, doesn’t mean I’m a better person, I’m a more successful person. I just chose something that has a lot more profit probably, right? It has some, maybe it’s a little more lucrative, and earning potential is endless.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: When you’re an entrepreneur, it’s endless.

Emily Sandberg: Also notice, working potential is endless as well.

Kris Plachy: Oh, that’s so well said, that might be part of our tea that we have to spill.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah. So, there’s a little bit more, there’s like there’s new boundaries to draw.

Kris Plachy: Yes! Well said.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: Because I can just open up my laptop and…

Emily Sandberg: Anywhere.

Kris Plachy: Anywhere.

Emily Sandberg: In bed, on the couch, at night, when we’re supposed to be like… “We used to just sit here together and talk or watch TV or whatever. Now you’re working again?” Yeah.

Kris Plachy: “What are you doing over there?’ “Nothing?” Yeah, I just think we have to tell these truths, and then none of them are bad, it’s all just like, “No, we’re here, too.” And so much of the work that I know I do with my clients is, acknowledging where you are unconsciously involved in lots of decisions or feeling uncomfortable with your partner, or spouse, because of money, or working.

I’ve heard it so many times, I work, then I break for dinner, and hang out with the kids for an hour, and then I go back to work. So, all of that could be true. Is it intentional? Are you doing it on purpose? Or because you want to? Or because you’ve fallen into a habit? Or because you don’t think you have another choice? And anytime I hear people are working late at night and excessive hours, that just tells me, you have less time than you do money, which means it’s time to buy other people’s time.

Emily Sandberg: Oh, there’s one right there.

Kris Plachy: Yeah.

Emily Sandberg: Right there. Not only by other people’s time, but also now you’e got to train them.

Kris Plachy: No, when you hire people, then you just tell them what you want, and they do it naturally.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah, Kris, have you told them about writing down systems and processes? And the amount of work that is.

Kris Plachy: Yet, no. Probably not. But yeah, absolutely, you’ve got to train them, and that feels so overwhelming, right?

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely, because you hire them when you’re already overwhelmed. And then you’re like, oh, so now not only can you not quite do my work yet, but also I have to take time out of my day to train you how to do that. And I’m going to do it with you, and it’s going to be even slower than it was before. Great.

Kris Plachy: That’s going to be fun. And I have to check it to make sure it’s right.

Emily Sandberg: Oh, and they’re going to make mistakes, too.

Kris Plachy: But listen, it gets better, so that’s the point, right?

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely, oh my gosh, so worth it.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, but initially you’re not [inaudible 28:43], it’s rough to…It’s like my very first executive coach, that watching other people think is painful. Okay, so you mentioned that one of the—you talked a little bit about your experience in How to CEO, I’m kind of curious what kind of your lasting take away has been? Even though I know you’re still in the Lab, and we still do this work regularly, but what was the thing that locked in for you?

Emily Sandberg: Ah, I would say probably the most powerful thing was…There’s been a lot, there were so many. But I really envisioned myself standing over my business at the 40,000-foot level or whatever, and looking down at it, and recognizing the individual roles and responsibility. One of my favorite things you say that I have adopted as my own is, we don’t pay people, we pay for roles, we pay for results.

So, I use that all the time in my coaching, as I help my clients. Because of course, they deal with, one of their biggest expenses is their people. And so, we talk about that a lot. So, that was super helpful, to just recognize that the importance of having a structure, the importance of having a written down, having everybody understand, this is your job, I expect you to do this. This is my job, you can expect me to do this. The trust that comes there, not only does the work get done, but the relationship that happens when all these roles are well-defined is beautiful.

Kris Plachy: Very powerful, yeah, I agree. And thank you, I agree with you, like I say, we just had the Lab call. We were talking about, we pay positions, not people. And I don’t mean that to sound heartless, because I think people are amazing, and I love people. But when we’re really looking at it through the lens of the business, and the assets of the business, that’s what we’re doing.

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely.

Kris Plachy: If you work with people that you think are amazing and you get really connected, and you love everybody, that’s fabulous, right? But we can never get lost in that, and I think that’s really valuable, that you highlighted that. So, thank you.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah. And I consider myself an advocate for the business, because so often as CEO, she has to wear so many hats, she has to advocate for the CEO as a person, who has a personal life, right? And needs money in her home life. And then she has to advocate for the business, and/or she has to take care of the business, run the business, make sure there’s money for the business.

When I protect the business, I protect everyone’s jobs. So, by paying positions, which is the way that we protect the business, make sure the work gets done, and not too much money gets spent on any one position. Then we protect the business and we protect everyone’s job. So, everyone has their livelihood. Not just this one person that you love so much, that you want to hang on to, so you give her more money, because you don’t know what else to do.

Kris Plachy: Exactly, well said, well said. Perfectly said. Okay, so, let’s just bring it home, and I’m just going to ask you sort of the biggie, which is, what else would you wish and hope every other woman, you know, you are in this space, where you work with female entrepreneurs. What do you just wish all of us knew? Like, knew, knew.

Emily Sandberg: Can I give a couple of things?

Kris Plachy: You can have more than one, yeah.

Emily Sandberg: Okay.

Kris Plachy: Because I’m a giver.

Emily Sandberg: You are, you are. I mean, we talked about the first one is probably always that how much money you have, or how much money you make does not determine more worth. Don’t ask your money to help you determine your own worth. Maybe your net worth, but not your individual worth. That’s so important because for so many reasons. Another thing is that, and this is something that I’ve learned in your program. I’ve learned other places as well, but being in your program has helped confirm this. Failure today, when I fail in that interaction I have with my employee today, or a client or whatever it is, whatever that little thing I did that was wrong, mistake, whatever, it’s not going to take my business down, unless I let it, right?

Kris Plachy: Yes.

Emily Sandberg: It’s just an experience I needed to have to learn something. It’s just another data point I can pull from. My business is not fragile.

Kris Plachy: Ooh, I love that thought.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah. It might have been at the beginning.

Kris Plachy: Even a lot. I like it for me, too. I am not fragile, like if I fail, the only way that takes me down is if I indulge the failure, right?

Emily Sandberg: Absolutely.

Kris Plachy: That’s so good. I am not fragile.

Emily Sandberg: I am not fragile, and neither is my business.

Kris Plachy: I love it.

Emily Sandberg: Yeah.

Kris Plachy: I want that to be a bumper sticker. I need a shirt, hat…

Emily Sandberg: So powerful.

Kris Plachy: Yes!

Emily Sandberg: So many of your interactions, if you don’t believe you’re fragile, you don’t believe the business is fragile, you can weather it, figure it out.

Kris Plachy: Yeah, so good. You’re a genius.

Emily Sandberg: Thank you.

Kris Plachy: Little shaman, money shaman that you are. Okay, if everybody wants to know more about you, where do they go?

Emily Sandberg: My current website is www.emilysandberg.net. That will be under what we’re reconstructing, a new website coming this spring. But you can find me there, that’s the best place.

Kris Plachy: And can I say one of the things I love a lot about your business, is that you don’t do any social media. It makes me so happy when I meet people who are really successful and there’s like, no social media really, like it’s not necessary, right? Because where do your clients come from?

Emily Sandberg: They come from other clients.

Kris Plachy: Yeah. So, that’s so fun. I love that. I’m aspiring to that, my goal. We’ve talked about that though, so that’s another podcast.

Emily Sandberg: Indeed, indeed.

Emily Sandberg: Yes. All right, well, thank you, thank you so much for your time today, it’s been an honor to chat with you, and as it is all the time that I get to talk to you, and I appreciate you sharing your beautiful words with everybody.

Emily Sandberg: Oh, thank you, Kris. I love…We have the best job, helping women as winners.

Kris Plachy: We do, yeah.

Emily Sandberg: It’s so fun.

Kris Plachy: I agree, every day, I’m like, “Really? Okay.”

Emily Sandberg: You think what you’re doing is okay?

Kris Plachy: Yeah, this is fun.

Emily Sandberg: Yes.

Kris Plachy: Thank you love.

Emily Sandberg: Thank you so much for having me.

Kris Plachy: You bet, thank you.

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